"The marketing-industrial complex has been on a tear for a hundred years to make almost everyone feel inadequate, because it's the single best way to sell you something. If that game isn't giving you joy, don't play that game.”
My next guest needs no introduction — though he deserves one nonetheless! Seth Godin is an inventor, thought-leader, contrarian, mentor, mensch, and an ongoing inspiration to so many of us. He is the author of 19 bestselling books, and this week we are celebrating his latest! The Practice: Shipping Creative Work, one that inspired me to get back on the mic after a two-month hiatus, to record this interview in early September.
Listen in as we celebrate our (almost) ten-year friendiversary and discuss a range of topics for those in the business of playing with ideas: shipping creative work even when tired, generosity and building with word-of-mouth in mind, choosing which information “rooms” to hang out in online, Tik Tok and social media tourism, and speaking to (and selecting for) the yearning of the people you seek to serve.
Although I’m at my awkward finest when interviewing my biggest heroes, Seth chief among them, I hope you enjoy this conversation on all things leadership and creativity :)
Links Mentioned:
Book: The Practice: Shipping Creative Work by Seth Godin
Courses: The Podcasting Workshop and (He)art of Podcasting
Jenny’s Author Toolkit: http://pivotmethod.com/authors (including the new book marketing spreadsheet, and the Behind-the-Book Toolkit for writing, editing, marketing, and launching)
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📝 Check out full show notes from this episode with links to resources mentioned at http://pivotmethod.com/254
More About Seth Godin
Seth Godin is the author of nineteen international bestsellers that have been translated into over 35 languages, and have changed the way people think about marketing and work. For a long time, Unleashing the Ideavirus was the most popular ebook ever published, and Purple Cow is the bestselling marketing book of the decade.
He's a recent inductee to the Marketing Hall of Fame, and also a member of the Direct Marketing Hall of Fame and (go figure), the Guerrilla Marketing Hall of Fame.
His book, Tribes, was a nationwide bestseller, appearing on the Amazon, New York Times, BusinessWeek, and Wall Street Journal bestseller lists. It's about the most powerful form of marketing--leadership--and how anyone can now become a leader, creating movements that matter.
His book Linchpin came out in 2008 and was the fastest-selling book of his career. Linchpin challenges you to stand up, do work that matters, and race to the top instead of the bottom. More than that, though, the book outlines a massive change in our economy, a fundamental shift in what it means to have a job.
Since Linchpin, Godin has published two more books, Poke the Box and We Are All Weird, through his Domino Project. He followed these with The Icarus Deception via Kickstarter, which reached its goal in less than three hours. Joined by Watcha Gonna Do With That Duck and V is for Vulnerable, those books are now widely available. In late 2014, he announced his latest, What To Do When It's Your Turn, sold directly from his website.
In addition to his writing and speaking, Seth was founder and CEO of Squidoo.com,. His blog (find it by typing "seth" into Google) is the most popular marketing blog in the world. Before his work as a writer and blogger, Godin was Vice President of Direct Marketing at Yahoo!, a job he got after selling them his pioneering 1990s online startup, Yoyodyne.
You can find every single possible detail that anyone could ever want to know at sethgodin.com
Topics We Cover
[ 1:00 ] Introduction and U.S. Election Day acknowledgment as you navigate this time
[ 2:55 ] Welcoming Seth to the show
[ 4:04 ] Celebrate your peculiarities; be peculiar and hit publish.
[ 5:21 ] Crawling out of a dip to do this interview; how to carry on and continue shipping, even when fatigue. How have the events of 2020 affected his practice? Show up even when you don't feel like it, and the joy will arrive in the moment.
[ 8:00 ] How he stays so consistent, even on days where the last thing he wants to do is work
[ 10:00 ] Mourning is real, trauma is real. And then what? What will we do with this one precious day? With the two hours today that we can do something?
[ 10:30 ] On creating buffer in your practice so streaks can continue, without worry of being "live"
[ 11:23 ] Generosity of the practice even when it comes to sales; withholding from the world is selfish. Getting out of the "hustle" mindset. Instead, I have a key that opens a lock for someone.
[ 12:45 ] Seth's correction to "if the work is good enough, it will speak for itself." People share because it helps them. Built into the work itself is the engine of its spread.
[ 16:00 ] Why do you want to be helpful to other people?
[ 17:17 ] Curators mantra: "Here, I sorted through everything and found this for you."
[ 17:30 ] On rituals, and how Seth tackles batching when it comes to writing and podcasting; why he hasn't worn matching socks in 20 years
[ 20:00 ] "I only write a book when I have no choice. Writing a book stopped being what I did for a living a long time ago."
[ 20:40 ] Seth's bad habit (and my productivity Achilles Heel) . . . on email and surrendering to the incoming
[ 22:00] Constant tension of small, incoming requests
[ 25:22 ] On silence and "being on the hook" to create
[ 27:37 ] What's the goal every day? "If you go to the trouble of severing ties to create silence, then you better damn well make something great."
[ 28:00 ] The world has been on fire before, the difference now is that you get an instant notification on your phone.
[ 30:23 ] Monty Python's Argument Room and how it relates to modern technology and discourse
[ 32:20 ] On "trauma tourists," and discerning what inputs to allow. "I'm filled with a great curiosity on systems and how they work."
[ 34:00 ] Seth's first Tik Tok experience: "It's straight-up sugar."
[ 35:00 ] On working on the business of playing with ideas. "We have resources and the ability to connect with other people. What's the change we seek to make? Otherwise the world is lining you up trying to make you become a customer and a product, a walking generality."
[ 36:00 ] Feeling stuck on which way to pivot. "There's only room for one Joe Rogan, one This American Life. You can't be the next one, because there already is one. The trap is thinking demographics and psychographics are related."
[ 40:00 ] On indoctrination into our caste system (in the U.S.)
[ 42:42 ] On social media, industrialism. “The marketing-industrial complex has been on a tear for a hundred years to make almost everyone feel inadequate, because it's the single best way to sell you something. If that game isn't giving you joy, don't play that game."
[ 43:43 ] What does he wish more podcasters asked him? "The best podcasts are a conversation between two people who care about each other."
[ 46:00 ] Where to find Seth's "treats and treasures" online
Resources Mentioned
Seth on the web: Seth Godin, Seth's Blog
Twitter: @thisissethsblog
Seth's book/s: The Practice: Shipping Creative Work, This Is Marketing, Tribes, Purple Cow, and many more
Jenny’s Author Toolkit (including the book marketing spreadsheet and behind-the-book toolkit)
Related Pivot Podcast Episodes
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